Sierra shutting down master servers

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Comments

  • ok, since im a little late to these boards can someone sum up whats gonna happen in a few words? i know the master server will go down eventually and i know theres suppose to be a new one that will come up, but how or were is that and when? is it on that tribesnext.com site? i would appreciate if anyone could help thanks.
  • ok, since im a little late to these boards can someone sum up whats gonna happen in a few words? i know the master server will go down eventually and i know theres suppose to be a new one that will come up, but how or were is that and when? is it on that tribesnext.com site? i would appreciate if anyone could help thanks.
    Thyth is saving Tribes 2.
  • If my understanding thus far is correct...

    The Tribes 2 Authentication, Server Browser, and Community subsystems will be completely taken down at some point in the [near] future, as Sierra/Vivendi/Whomever has made clear. In response to this notice, an existing replacement project was pushed into "high-gear". Said project will at first release provide authentication and server listing capabilities, with future (automated) updates bringing a community feature back to Tribes 2.

    So yes, in effect Thyth is saving Tribes 2 from falling into the abyss.


    And TribesNext is the site from which the re-re-release of the game will be available (with the patched executables, new community content, and such..)
  • ShrimpFromHellShrimpFromHell Me is teh Shrimpeh!
    I bet they forgot, lol. And it WILL take another year before they re-discover that the servers are still online.
  • TThyth AKA Electricutioner
    Wow... lots to respond to, and this is by no sense a complete reply to everything said in the last 20 hours. So, it seems the master servers are online, but I don't think it is safe to assume that they will be running for very long. Optimistically, someone forgot to turn off the server on Friday night, and the systems will remain operational over the weekend.

    I'll keep working on the components and try to get it finished this weekend.

    I'm also posting a pair of diagrams. The first diagram is a modified version of Vsf's diagrammed authentication system, and shows the easiest way to break it by allowing Eve to impersonate Bob if Bob joins a server controlled or subverted by Eve. It is a simple token replay attack.

    The second diagram visually represents the authentication system I designed. Maybe with an image, it will become clear why the particular design works. I enumerate 4 possible attacks on the system, and why they are either impractical, or will fail outright.

    It works the same way as SSL works for https; the only difference is that in SSL an http server proving their identity to a user's browser, and in this auth system a client is proving their identity to a game server. The auth server serves as the certificate authority, if you want to see the system as SSL. Considering the design of SSL has survived for decades without attacks, I think it is the way to go.
    • NotSoStrongAuth.jpg
    • ThythStrongAuth.jpg
  • OOctopussy campfire headphase
    So far, it looks as if the majority of the T2 community is in favor of Thyth's solution. ViciousStarFish can stop being a dick now.
  • links at tribesnext.com aren't working...
  • sloiksloik Krypton Developer
    links at tribesnext.com aren't working...

    It's not finished yet. Be patient.
  • I read some of the other posts before this one. I do wish some people would look at the whole and consider their words... I would like to ask if they are programmers?

    Thyth, I do have to read your notes, but I suspect you are basing my whole aregument (backed by friends clearly... on your turnf, and not your effort I know) on one diagram, which I feel is more than you have posted... BUT! You proved you shoudld be part of a group effort. A few solid developers will get this done, and I know we can... I know your idea is your way to go and you may be surprised I might not fully disagree... I hope we have the chance to find out more...

    In reponse to some, please understand I am posting on your turf, with techological concearns and questions that I would at best have a hard time in communicating with non-developers who have made their minds... on their own turn... I will now post what I was spending time writing... again, Thyth, I'll read your notes too, as we both likely agree the time spent on this could go into a final system with value.

    Trust me all, I am not alone in my thoughts, I have people I speak with (even if all of my words have been over here, not to my friends to pat me on the back)...



    Ok, my thoughts and efforts (IMO) to debunk some misconceptions…

    1) There are already a few good existing no-login solutions that will not work over time. We all know that and everyone agrees a final system much be better. The proposal I've been making goes beyond a simple system into being a complete system, that is modular, and after that secure login functionality that ensures previous GUIDs are used (and probably adapted for certain reasons) to ensure user identity is completed, the system becomes the building block of a user page, team page, rank system (with more added).

    2) There are players who are fully in the belief that one person is going to save the community, and say are saying this as though it were true and as though they were not biased. Although to be far, I am not referring to a certain person who tried to be fair in some information when they PM'd me. I am referring to some comments said out loud in ways that do not explain the reasons behind the disagreements behind a mildly complex situation.

    3) I have been asking for a player to check their ego and possible underlying "open-source vs. closed-source" motivations in comparing programming languages in both public and private means . But some still want to enjoy basking in the glow of self-imposed martyrdom. I will still ask for cooperation, as the tougher road it may be, it is fully in the best interest of the community.

    This is a complex and easy situation all at once. As a community we need to come together and build one fail-safe system that lets all current and new players know this was a solid work and supported by some prominent members and further backed by their people. Despite what some people may think, I am explaining from experience that when such a project is broken into pieces that interface via agreed upon interfaces (such as XML, get/post or tcp pipes) an open community of talented developers can do allot, despite being as tough to herd as cats. If each person, to an individual, wants to get along, it will be obvious. I know others are talented and I know what I can do and where I should leave off and allow for others to pick up. This is very well seen when such a team agrees upon roles of development and stick to those roles. Seeing this, a community of players will naturally come together and support the PROJECT, not just the people. In fact, after the project begins, names should be hidden (there are some other game companies out there who were instrumental in beginning our game who operate like this.

    But pitfalls exist in the way things are going that can be corrected. If all of us agreed to use a same chat channel, secure website, etc it will be handled… and pull player and groups together in a way that will affect us all for years to come. The alternative is quite obvious.

    1) Encryption used in some cases MAY be illegal in other locations. The system some of us are recommending means that game and game servers (both of these are actually referred to as client side) only use the EXISTING type of script, not an add-on, uncompiled script to interface with a copywriten executable. The games and game servers, despite requiring a .cs add-on (or a few and others replaced) should remain pristine, and these are legal changes. Hooking the executables may not be, although this was done once in a happy way.

    2) The use of words like Free may promote actions by some corporations that we could find undesirable. I admit that I have some html pages to change, but we all learn. This is a game that should, of course, be played in the bounds of the game. The game can be made to speak with HTML pages, for example, to get a MOTD. This built in functionality can go a long, legal way toward ensuring that players, using existing UIDs, have unique names. These UIDs, can be loaded in LEGAL SQL servers, and the used between the two types of clients to ensure players are really who they say they are. The handling of this information can be handled by RSA, AES, 3DES, BlowFish or even the most publicly common, MD5 (as seen on most download sites, to make sure a downloaded file was not tampered with. SourceForge.Net is an excellent example.

    3) The use of websites with names that indicate a continuation of this copywriten game name xxxnext.com and so on, that did not exist prior to the notification of this game being cut off, is almost certain to bring attention, probably resulting in a Cease And Desist order at minimum. We all know this game can be played in LAN mode, but, even if extended, anything that brings attention to the fact that the executable has been tampered with, even on a case by case basis (whether the exe is game or login related) is quite likely to elicited a response. Quite frankly, we were told to keep down the noise, and I am trying to recommend this.

    4) The requirement of loading Ruby, or another executable / script duo (Perl is an example) upon my or others pc's will very likely be ignored when (for now) as it is just as just as easy for certain sites to share lists or when players can distribute files that contain “favorites”, to help players get in. This community is not a bunch of lemmings. Yet it is likely to utilize a single, multi-team designed, system over a hash of open source languages to be downloaded (yes, I know the system is designed to be self-patching, but at the expense of the above information?) that, while emulating a previous companies functionality, invite their notice and actions.

    5) I think this is a wake-up to all of us. EWO had no-login systems like anyone else and decided against it long term, and rather commit to a solid, long term system. Being first to market does not make someone right, but the process may accidentally make them a target, and we are trying to avoid this. Furthermore, working together is going to bring together players who will remember this and react accordingly. The community has always been split in many ways. This gives us a chance to get past that. We are reaching out, and we have some people ready and others not, but construct does have those people. They are not going to do 90% of the scripting and need to be real… this will be allot of work for everyone involved. My proposal has encryption (stop asking me to post everything, responding to this has taken enough time, join us in seriousness and the developer will see it, and they will not fight much, just some). My proposal leaves a stepping stone to player and team pages and more. But even that system, even if “left to clean up the crumbs” as was indicated earlier, needs to know certain professional interface API documentation. But if someone steps up to work as a team member, and stop using words as a public instrument of ridicule, things will get done.

    Working alone will result in two systems, and working together will result in one.

    But (and tomorrow or other times will tell) we may all be surprised. The source code owners may leave up these masters for some obvious reasons, just not support us (as if they did, but you know). Regardless, this is a wake-up call. If we use a community system, rather than a company who produces no keys, positives can still happen. Even if we have more time, then we can do this right. If we don’t, then shared lists and favorites files will be used by many people, because I will never load Ruby on my game or game server and I know I’m not alone. My proposal will not require loading anything that is not legal under the modding rules, is safe, and will be FAST. And with that, I am complete in explaining, and I do hope I was able to express my long winded points enough to help explain the tip of the considerations. If certain developers want to reach me, I have certain team speak servers we can continue speaking on, and pull we will pull in others as needed. But please stop insulting my intelligence with bloated words of efforts and previous waiting. This is not about us, it’s about the game. We have or were given the skills to do this, let’s do this for the community of players please.

    Vsf
  • I am sure Thyth will read and critique... that is how it works. But Denier and Sloith, there are some points to think about in the domain name in what I posted. I hope your time permits.
  • My WORD!!! Thyth, other than you doing all the work and including an execute hook into a copywritten exe, how are we any different? For the notice of all, the only MAIN difference that we have here is you make a MUCH bigger deal about the technical points of RSA that most people could not explain anyway.

    If V did what I think, and left the masters up, then we have no reason not to work together unless you want all the credit for something we are both going to make securly in the end anyway. We both have the means to get this done, you simply were always a part of this group and code... I just came out of the insulated War world.

    So if they did, and neither one of us is in a hurry, let's find common ground to work together. This will also mean that the only diagram I have posted, would be heavily talked through and far surpassed by both of us, for our teams. Without saying some points, there is a MAJOR reason for people to use OUR system over what is in place.

    But (sorry to repeat again) we will both get it done, this is a matter of, do we split a server and everyone gets the game scripted side, and make one big world to email and keep updated, or do we make two communities and continue to be the Hatfields and McCoys? I beleive we are better than that.
  • or do we make two communities and continue to be the Hatfields and McCoys?
    Don't forget that competing is natural, and its healthy for some projects :)
  • Yeah Cat, you are right, and it may be the case "here".

    I just told 31 others who did not even know about this thread... there may be a few more thoughts added soon too... hehe, if anything it could yeild some advertising for Construct... ooor not. But I was fair, and I said nothing other than it was here to be considered. People need to make up their own minds... they will.
  • TThyth AKA Electricutioner
    Thyth, I do have to read your notes, but I suspect you are basing my whole aregument (backed by friends clearly... on your turnf, and not your effort I know) on one diagram, which I feel is more than you have posted... BUT! You proved you shoudld be part of a group effort. A few solid developers will get this done, and I know we can... I know your idea is your way to go and you may be surprised I might not fully disagree... I hope we have the chance to find out more...
    Considering I've posted the entirety of my design, I don't know how you can suspect anything of the sort. I posted an obvious flaw in the design in the diagram that you posted.

    I think I proved that I have a viable design. I think other people need to prove that they have something of value to contribute if they want to work with me. I don't have the time to bring someone up to speed if they are concerned with trivialities. If you want to work with me, you will have to work with me under my rules.
    1) There are already a few good existing no-login solutions that will not work over time. We all know that and everyone agrees a final system much be better. The proposal I've been making goes beyond a simple system into being a complete system, that is modular, and after that secure login functionality that ensures previous GUIDs are used (and probably adapted for certain reasons) to ensure user identity is completed, the system becomes the building block of a user page, team page, rank system (with more added).
    If they won't work over time, then I wouldn't consider them "good".

    Either way, the system I have designed is modular. GUIDs are part of the accounts that people generate, and these GUIDs could easily be used to produce a community interaction system. However, community interaction is entirely secondary to authentication and listing. If you can't play the game, you won't care about player pages or clans.
    2) There are players who are fully in the belief that one person is going to save the community, and say are saying this as though it were true and as though they were not biased. Although to be far, I am not referring to a certain person who tried to be fair in some information when they PM'd me. I am referring to some comments said out loud in ways that do not explain the reasons behind the disagreements behind a mildly complex situation.
    Maybe because a certain person has provided a viable design that has been open to legitimate technical criticism, and has been able to defend it intelligently instead of bringing up bullshit like this.
    3) I have been asking for a player to check their ego and possible underlying "open-source vs. closed-source" motivations in comparing programming languages in both public and private means . But some still want to enjoy basking in the glow of self-imposed martyrdom. I will still ask for cooperation, as the tougher road it may be, it is fully in the best interest of the community.
    Completely irrelevant to the authentication and listing systems.
    This is a complex and easy situation all at once. As a community we need to come together and build one fail-safe system that lets all current and new players know this was a solid work and supported by some prominent members and further backed by their people. Despite what some people may think, I am explaining from experience that when such a project is broken into pieces that interface via agreed upon interfaces (such as XML, get/post or tcp pipes) an open community of talented developers can do allot, despite being as tough to herd as cats. If each person, to an individual, wants to get along, it will be obvious. I know others are talented and I know what I can do and where I should leave off and allow for others to pick up. This is very well seen when such a team agrees upon roles of development and stick to those roles. Seeing this, a community of players will naturally come together and support the PROJECT, not just the people. In fact, after the project begins, names should be hidden (there are some other game companies out there who were instrumental in beginning our game who operate like this.
    The solution isn't easy by any means. It might look that way from the sidelines. Trivialities such as transport formats of data aren't even work discussing. Anyone who has experience building systems like that already knows what is required. Focus on the meat, not the inconsequential connective tissue.
    1) Encryption used in some cases MAY be illegal in other locations. The system some of us are recommending means that game and game servers (both of these are actually referred to as client side) only use the EXISTING type of script, not an add-on, uncompiled script to interface with a copywriten executable. The games and game servers, despite requiring a .cs add-on (or a few and others replaced) should remain pristine, and these are legal changes. Hooking the executables may not be, although this was done once in a happy way.
    In which case, the original T2 executable would be illegal to run in those same jurisdictions. How do you think WON worked?
    2) The use of words like Free may promote actions by some corporations that we could find undesirable. I admit that I have some html pages to change, but we all learn. This is a game that should, of course, be played in the bounds of the game. The game can be made to speak with HTML pages, for example, to get a MOTD. This built in functionality can go a long, legal way toward ensuring that players, using existing UIDs, have unique names. These UIDs, can be loaded in LEGAL SQL servers, and the used between the two types of clients to ensure players are really who they say they are. The handling of this information can be handled by RSA, AES, 3DES, BlowFish or even the most publicly common, MD5 (as seen on most download sites, to make sure a downloaded file was not tampered with. SourceForge.Net is an excellent example.
    Irrelevant. You're again focusing on trivialities such as data transport. We are in the legal clear if we are reverse engineering the system for interoperability with legacy systems. I have consulted JDs on the legality of this project already.
    Reverse engineering (section 1201(f)). This exception permits
    circumvention, and the development of technological means for such
    circumvention, by a person who has lawfully obtained a right to use a
    copy of a computer program for the sole purpose of identifying and
    analyzing elements of the program necessary to achieve interoperability
    with other programs, to the extent that such acts are permitted under
    copyright law.
    3) The use of websites with names that indicate a continuation of this copywriten game name xxxnext.com and so on, that did not exist prior to the notification of this game being cut off, is almost certain to bring attention, probably resulting in a Cease And Desist order at minimum. We all know this game can be played in LAN mode, but, even if extended, anything that brings attention to the fact that the executable has been tampered with, even on a case by case basis (whether the exe is game or login related) is quite likely to elicited a response. Quite frankly, we were told to keep down the noise, and I am trying to recommend this.
    You can't copyright game names. That falls under the jurisdiction of trademark law. Additionally, "tribes" being plural of "tribe" does not satisfy the requirements of trademark distinctiveness in US law.You will need to speak to Krash about the origins of the Tribes 2 logo currently shown on the site. If it isn't a unique work, it will need to be replaced.

    The executable tampering argument is irrelevant under DMCA Section 1201f as quoted above.
    4) The requirement of loading Ruby, or another executable / script duo (Perl is an example) upon my or others pc's will very likely be ignored when (for now) as it is just as just as easy for certain sites to share lists or when players can distribute files that contain “favorites”, to help players get in. This community is not a bunch of lemmings. Yet it is likely to utilize a single, multi-team designed, system over a hash of open source languages to be downloaded (yes, I know the system is designed to be self-patching, but at the expense of the above information?) that, while emulating a previous companies functionality, invite their notice and actions.
    Congratulations on demonstrating, yet again, a complete lack of understanding of the necessity for that sort of modification.

    You're downloading a patch in any case. There is no reason to use poorly designed, and insecure systems when a well designed alternative exists.
    5) I think this is a wake-up to all of us. EWO had no-login systems like anyone else and decided against it long term, and rather commit to a solid, long term system.
    I don't see a commitment to a solid, long-term system, because I don't see any solid, long-term system other than the one I am implementing.
    Being first to market does not make someone right, but the process may accidentally make them a target, and we are trying to avoid this.
    Target from whom? As repeatedly referenced, there is nothing illegal about the design or implementation of my system.
    Furthermore, working together is going to bring together players who will remember this and react accordingly. The community has always been split in many ways. This gives us a chance to get past that. We are reaching out, and we have some people ready and others not, but construct does have those people. They are not going to do 90% of the scripting and need to be real… this will be allot of work for everyone involved.
    Working together with the right people, yes. Your focus on trivialities has distorted your perception of where the real work is.
    My proposal has encryption (stop asking me to post everything, responding to this has taken enough time, join us in seriousness and the developer will see it, and they will not fight much, just some).
    If you want me to have anything to do with your system, I will not stop asking you until you give a satisfactory answer. I will not consider joining a team to implement a system whose design shows extremely critical issues with security.
    My proposal leaves a stepping stone to player and team pages and more.
    So does mine.
    But even that system, even if “left to clean up the crumbs” as was indicated earlier, needs to know certain professional interface API documentation. But if someone steps up to work as a team member, and stop using words as a public instrument of ridicule, things will get done.
    Too concerned about interfaces, too concerned about public perception, and not concerned enough about getting the system done.
    Working alone will result in two systems, and working together will result in one.
    Perhaps, but only one system will be left standing. If other teams implement authentication systems, you can be confident that if they rely on a broken design, I will break them.
    But (and tomorrow or other times will tell) we may all be surprised. The source code owners may leave up these masters for some obvious reasons, just not support us (as if they did, but you know). Regardless, this is a wake-up call.
    Yes, and if the systems remain operational, I will include modifications in mine to allow interfacing with servers running Sierra's authentication. We already have executable modifications that allow joining Sierra mode servers without performing authentication. This will allow people to use existing accounts on Sierra's system while also allowing new accounts to be generated without CD keys via my system.
    If we use a community system, rather than a company who produces no keys, positives can still happen. Even if we have more time, then we can do this right.
    My system is being done right, and anyone who can read my descriptions, or look at my diagram can understand that.
    If we don’t, then shared lists and favorites files will be used by many people, because I will never load Ruby on my game or game server and I know I’m not alone.
    Then what's the point of even offering to work with me? Sounds like you're pretty set on using a broken system.
    My proposal will not require loading anything that is not legal under the modding rules, is safe, and will be FAST.
    Nothing I'm doing is illegal. Thanks for implying I'm a criminal.
    And with that, I am complete in explaining, and I do hope I was able to express my long winded points enough to help explain the tip of the considerations. If certain developers want to reach me, I have certain team speak servers we can continue speaking on, and pull we will pull in others as needed. But please stop insulting my intelligence with bloated words of efforts and previous waiting. This is not about us, it’s about the game. We have or were given the skills to do this, let’s do this for the community of players please.
    And how about you stop insulting my intelligence and actually focus on getting a system operational rather than pushing your own personal agenda?

    Prove to me that you are worth working with. So far, you've done nothing but the opposite.
  • That's a small post.
  • So far, it looks as if the majority of the T2 community is in favor of Thyth's solution. ViciousStarFish can stop being a dick now.

    Denier, please define "most of the community". Do you mean the comparitivly few people who have weighed in here, or who even knew this thread was here? It's not often I respond like this, and I do not mind be called a dick... I have been and certainly will be called allot more and far worse.

    No, I am asking you on what programmatic authority did you feel comfortable saying that? Was it just based on the numbers who replied, most of whom did not speak like that? Otherwise I would like you to explain your reason so I get it, from your perspective.

    You see, I really do want to know if I have made my point clear that as a developer and former sysadmin (current one too really). I do not dislike Tyth, I am in disagreement with him, even if I feel I know his attitude and it does not survive in the corporate world... often anyway. And I feel that he's working too much on one point alone (the diagram additions to mine may change that some). But I also feel he likely knows what he means and I will take that at face value.

    But in case you did not read the whole thing I posted (it really was long and did not include some of your vernacular), you may only be responding based on the fact that I am at all challenging Tyth on the technological merits of his thoughts, and feel and am stating that he is using big words to impress you when I'm not sure it's as required as much as he states. I am asking in various ways to work together. And if you missed the fact, I am trying to bring two groups together in efforts, for the good of the whole, and they new player. At no time has he called me foul words, and I have not said that to him. I'd like to ask that you please consider the same.
  • TThyth AKA Electricutioner
    Here... how about something constructive, since this is rather quickly deteriorating? VSF... your area of expertise isn't in designing authentication protocol, so maybe you should leave that to the people that have built these things before. My attitude is just fine in the sorts of disruptive technology firms that I work for.

    You say you have experience building web based systems. If you're so excited about building a set of team and player pages, why don't you build one? You'll have something to show for your certifications and experience. With proper MVC separation, connecting your pages to an existing system is a trivial task. You can load some test data so people can get a feel for your system, and provide constructive criticism on how to improve it.

    Meanwhile, I'll focus on the stuff that I know I can do well, and is clearly not your forte.
  • Thyth:

    What effect, if any, does your solution have with regards to the use of DefenseTurret?
  • EEolk Angry Old Man
    My guess is that Defense Turret, along with HM2, will become incompatible. I doubt neither program writers are going to write future versions any time soon, so, yeah.
  • It seems to me that Thyth is being extremely helpful and informative when it comes to his design. It would seem he has the knowledge, skills and desire to make a system that will both work and be very secure. It would seem to me that rather than hassling him, people might help him, or be supportive at the very least.


    Denier, please define "most of the community". Do you mean the comparitivly few people who have weighed in here, or who even knew this thread was here? It's not often I respond like this, and I do not mind be called a dick... I have been and certainly will be called allot more and far worse.


    I can say that myself, v2rebellion (i believe) and the =Rebels= servers in general support Thyth and his selfless efforts to keep the game alive.
  • TThyth AKA Electricutioner
    What effect, if any, does your solution have with regards to the use of DefenseTurret?
    I imagine Defense Turret will claim a tainted executable and scream loudly. I'm injecting code into Tribes 2 in a pretty similar manner to Defense Turret.

    Considering Defense Turret never boots cheaters that fail challenges (due to a bug in the dt_serv.cs file) and has a backdoor code that lets you always pass as non-cheating, it's value came from the way it prevented hooking into the Tribes 2 memory space by things like Happy Mod 2. I used those backdoor codes to make a DT emulator which I used for convenience reasons for playing on DT requiring servers.

    The memory space has been sufficiently modified in the game to prevent use of unmodified cheats like HM2 (it will crash instantly). A more advanced (and up to date) anti-cheat system has been discussed as part of later updates.
  • TThyth AKA Electricutioner
    Oh, by the way, I just thought I'd mention that Sloik and I threw a quick advertising script together. He's programmed a client to cycle through all of the T2 servers one by one and provide a short blurb for advertising the www.tribesnext.com website. It should connect once per hour or so to every active (and non-passworded) T2 server.

    It should help to get the word out without being too obnoxious.
  • ok well thanks thyth for doing your best to bring tribes2 back once it die's i will continue to check back and play as much as i can before the master server goe's down.

    btw im 'NiKKa' KdAwGKiLLa

    Time to kill some more n00b's :D
  • Wow... There are mature members of this community who said I should not bother with you.

    As for the rest of your words, I'm not playing your game any more. I provided community level concearns and questions, and you provided insults and distortions.

    Yet, if I may ask, where is your API posted? You have refered to it often, yet not linked to it. I'm surprised.

    (note, in fairnaess, this was noticed to be posted before the last post Thyth sent to me...)
  • Jesus fucking Christ, ViciousStarFish. Let me sum up all of your posts for you in one sentence, because I don't think you realize what you are saying: "If you don't let me in, I am going to get my friends and do my own thing just to spite you." That is what you are saying. You can try to pretty it up with thirty paragraphs and disguise it with questionable knowledge of the English language, but you are only fooling your own buddies who were going to side with you anyway. Who is "most of the community", you ask? I'll tell you. The whole base Arena and Classic communities, both of which I have influence over, will be with Thyth. V2 looks to be siding with Thyth as well, and Construction also obviously is on his side. That is probably more than 80% of the active Tribes 2 community right there. I don't know what EWO is going to end up deciding. War2k3 has what, like, 9 players total? If EWO has any trifle of intelligence, they will be joining with the rest of the Tribes 2 community by using Thyth's very well designed, documented, and secure system. You War2k3 boys will left by yourselves with your 2nd-rate system to play in 16-bot servers on your worthless piece of shit mod that no one plays anyway (except terrible newbs who aren't even a real part of the Tribes 2 community).

    Good fucking riddance.

    PS. Just because you piss me off, I'm going to assist Thyth in breaking whatever system you come up with if it comes up, and I'm sure I can find plenty of help in doing so.
  • Actually Kyrand, no. I can recognize the deterioration in a conversation as well, and I went back and posted the slip between post times

    But your language and threat was uncalled for... I asked to keep said conversations in email to be civil and was responding in open as was sent. It did not go that way and for that it seems a shame. It resulted in miscommunication. I am not at all sorry for trying to both offer and disagree in an adult fashion. I chose the conversation on your server which means I was likley to face an uphill battle. I don't appologize either for a mod that some enjoy and most don't.

    It seems to me that when I do work on a system, that it better be good, eh? ;) I'll continue to keep it polite.
  • Sorry, I have been reading all the posts up to the one that
    Kryand posted and stayed quiet.
    How can you say we are not part of the T2 community?
    We have been there since the beginning in some way shape or form.
    We might have not have standded out like any other mod as V2. I mean who are you to say that we are not part of community?
    Construction has what 10-15 players?
    while I can assure you that War has well over 6 players.
    I'm not saying that VSF is right, what I'm saying is that what he is doing is something good. He criticizing Thyth's work, but the way that Thyth took it was that VSF was trying to take advantage. But that's not it all, VSF wants Thyth to take time to think everything out and figure out if His system will work as it is intended. Try to catch the mistakes before they are committed.
  • This is not my server. Honestly I don't view Construction or half the other mods I mentioned any higher than I view War2k3. I wouldn't be surprised if my other post is edited by a moderator soon or deleted entirely. I don't really care either.

    It is painfully obvious that the only person with an "ego" problem here is you (and maybe me, but that's beside the point). You asked to be let in on Thyth's plans, and when he couldn't find time to get you up to speed, you were obviously somehow offended and are now making it your goal to compete with him unless he changes his mind.

    I don't apologize for my threat either. The way I see it, there's more than one way to contribute to the survival of Tribes 2, ways that don't involve assisting Thyth with the coding process. One of those ways is to prevent the further fracturing of the the community by seeing to it that the competition's solution fails.
  • Vicious, its time for you to shut up.
  • TThyth AKA Electricutioner
    Wow... There are mature members of this community who said I should not bother with you.

    As for the rest of your words, I'm not playing your game any more. I provided community level concearns and questions, and you provided insults and distortions.

    Yet, if I may ask, where is your API posted? You have refered to it often, yet not linked to it. I'm surprised.

    (note, in fairnaess, this was noticed to be posted before the last post Thyth sent to me...)
    I only have the acronym "API" in my post once -- and it was in the context of the Windows 32 API. All other times were in quotes from you. I don't know why you think I refer to it "often" if I have never referred to it.

    In any case, why do you need an API? You already know that players will be keyed in by GUID, just like in the existing system. If you do proper MVC separation in your software engineering, you could interface to any sort of system that I come up with -- in fact, if you had a decent online system to show, I would have personally helped you come up with it. You don't need to know how anything else works to implement player or clan pages. That's the beauty of modular software engineering.

    I have been trying to get realistic answers as to what you can offer. You claim you could build an online system for player and clan pages, and now that I suggest you do so, you won't?

    Anyway, I'm going to put another 4 hours in tonight to see how close to finishing I can get. It's going to be more productive than debating for no real good reason.
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